In this extract from the 23rd of April 1993, a devotee called Renato asks Papaji if there is a difference between experience and realization, and whether there's a process to gain full and permanent realization. Papaji: "Don't believe whatever you have experienced in life. Get rid of all experiences. Experiences are all in the dreams. You have to wake up. Then you will see that nothing ever existed. To get rid of the experience is your true state."

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