Professional skeptic, Michael Shermer, was speaking with historian Mary Graybar and defended Thomas Jefferson by saying he was "progressive" to have raped Sally Hemings. He contends that we can judge him by today's standards and that he was lonely after the death of his wife. He completely ignores that he owned Sally Hemings and that by definition any relationship can not be consensual. Also, his white descendants denied the Hemings family as being part of their own for centuries.
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Matt: Yeah Michael Shermer who founded the skeptic society and is the editor of Skeptic Magazine who has had I think Jordan Peterson and other people guess that. so he is not the best when the skeptic community sends their best this is not who they send. Michael Shermer will get into some of his histories that are relevant to a historical little thought experiment that we're about to hear from him.
Emma: Yes he is speaking with historian Mary Graybar. and they're talking about Thomas Jefferson specifically his relationship with the slave that he owned Sally Hemmings. Now, look at how much he projects his own horniness and weird sexual depravity onto this story.
Shermer: Let's just take the scenario that he did father a child with his slaves.
Matt: So it's not a scenario. This is a documented fact that was denied by the white Jefferson descendants for 200 years until DNA evidence forced them to acknowledge the truth. we'll get into that a little bit later. but anyway go ahead.
Emma: yes again though like because he is the center of the universe he identifies more with Jefferson in this instance and he has to center his perspective.
Matt: But like any skeptic who would cast doubt on the validity of what the Hemings family has said about that we descended from Thomas Jefferson is being anti-scientific.
Emma: And basically it's been proven.
Matt: Yes absolutely yeah and also like you should have probably trusted the oral histories for the 200 years but anyway.
Emma: Yeah but if it's not a white man I don't give credence. Continue.
Shemer: Let's just take the scenario that he did father a child with his slave sally. If I recall chronologically correctly his wife had already died right? His wife died even before he was president. so let's just put a charitable spin on it because by all accounts he was a good guy. what if his wife dies he's lonely he falls in love with Sally Hemmings and they have a child together. Why is that not like a progressive thing? like this is you know this was against the law right and he's breaking the law because he loves this woman. and they have a child together. There's no birth control whatever just happens. So he then takes care of her and the child and so on. Why not elevate him even higher for this? instead of calling him a rapist. you know what we know is in his mind. How do we know what kind of relationship? we don't know enough.
Matt: How do we know what kind of relationship? We know that he was the master and she was the slave. we also know that she was 14 years old when they started their I don't know what Michael Schumer wants to call it I would call it the rape relationship that they had. so we actually know with some degree of philosophical specificity what their relationship was.
Emma: You know what we also know that she had the inability to say no right. We know that we don't know what was in his mind. not really well I guess he gives a that's the thing is we kind of know what's in his mind we know what could not have been in her mind or she would have faced severe retribution. which is like I'm going to resist this anyway continue, Bradley.
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